Author Topic: Cool Drachen Fire Article (Read 10120 times)

Edwardo · « **Reply #25 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:31:35 AM »

I know a guy who isn't really an enthusiast, works as HR for an Armored Car service in the DC area. When he was a young adult, he lived near and worked for Busch gardens. He had photos of the Drachen Fire model from before it was even announced.

Anywho, What 'supposedly' happened is BGW wanted a coaster for that year, not sure if B&M couldn't or wouldn't do one at the park (due to time constraints, lack of availability, money, whatever), but the decision was made to go with Arrow, which the park had a great working relationship with. BGW wanted something new (they already had LNM and didn't need another stock Arrow looper), so that was what Arrow came up with.

If you notice, every element save for the first, which was kind of a modified kamakazi turn, were made up of elements Arrow was already doing.

It seems Ron Toomer didn't like to push limits. I think that's pretty evident in that Arrow looping coasters didn't really get 'good' until after he retired, which was too late.

Thankfully the guy that created and designed the 4D concept for Arrow is the same guy who is working with Rocky Mountain Coasters on The (new) Texas Giant. Which is why I'm excited. Once they were allowed to use computers to design coasters, it shows that they were good at it.

AV Matt · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2011, 12:51:11 PM »

So assuming that account is true, that would debunk all of the theories about B&M designing the layout and Arrow tweaking it.

AV Matt · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2011, 01:04:32 PM »

Quote from: Edwardo on March 31, 2011, 10:31:35 AM

It seems Ron Toomer didn't like to push limits. I think that's pretty evident in that Arrow looping coasters didn't really get 'good' until after he retired, which was too late.

Thankfully the guy that created and designed the 4D concept for Arrow is the same guy who is working with Rocky Mountain Coasters on The (new) Texas Giant. Which is why I'm excited. Once they were allowed to use computers to design coasters, it shows that they were good at it.

Arrow made some great loopers before Tennessee Tornado. Orient Express (before it became ridiculously rough) was one of my all-time favorite steel coasters. It had loads of airtime with three great drops and made good use of the terrain. The whole "Ron Toomer designed coasters with a coat hanger" thing has really been blown out of proportion. He used the hanger as a simple modeling tool for working out concepts before doing the engineering. It's something us engineers do from time to time.

They were using computers before Ron Toomer retired. They just had a lot of catching up to do.

B-mac · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:01:11 PM »

I wonder exactly what happened with Rip, Ride, Rockit. The ride was rumored to be built by B&M, but word got out Maurer Shone was doing it and that B&M turned it down because they couldn't manage it. After the whole train incident was fixed I heard that B&M just flat out denied Universal about the project, even with the remaking of the trains. And right now the future of the ride is a bit unknown. I know they contacted premier, intamin, and I believe Mack, too about the remaking of at least the trains. Of course everyone stepped back and Maurer is kind of left cleaning up their own mess right now.

From experience and from others, Rip Ride Rockit isn't what it's cracked up to be. The trains look mighty comfy and all, but the ride gets pretty rough in some areas, all the curved drops and the crowd surfer section really don't help the ride much. It looks nice on paper, but it's bad in use.

WadeJ · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:32:24 PM »

Having a rather close relation to that ride, I can assure you that B&M was not the original project plan. It was sent for bid just like most projects and they simply didn't go with them.
However, after the train problem and a delay on replacement parts, B&M was one of many contacted to fabricate new bogeys. That they did turn down.

From what I've heard, the ride is great fun now and running much better with the new bogey design.

Millennium Force 44 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:54:45 PM »

Does anyone have/know of any pictures of the old and new Rip Ride Rockit trains? That was never a ride I really followed much on so I am kind of lost in this part of the conversation lol

WadeJ · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:51:24 PM »

Trains are the same. Just the wheel assemblies changed and it's not obvious from above.

Edwardo · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:17:16 PM »

Quote from: AV Matt on March 31, 2011, 12:51:11 PM

So assuming that account is true, that would debunk all of the theories about B&M designing the layout and Arrow tweaking it.

I've heard from quite a few people in the know that the reason that SFKK didn't name T2 to Batman after painting it black was because B&M didn't want people thinking that the SLC was their product. I don't see them designing anything and letting Arrow tweak it. Having said that, B&M didn't really design their layouts back then anyways, Stengle did. So mayhaps that's who came up with a design and it got tweaked after Arrow took over, I dunno, but I've never believed that B&M did anything more than tell BGW what elements they could put on a coaster, if they even did that, when it comes to Drachen Fire.

Quote

Orient Express (before it became ridiculously rough)

You just proved my whole point ;-)

Quote

Having a rather close relation to that ride, I can assure you that B&M was not the original project plan. It was sent for bid just like most projects and they simply didn't go with them.

Bingo. Apparently Universal US didn't want to pay for the B&M that Japan got, but wanted something similar.

As for that particular ride, it wasn't that rough when I rode it, it was just boring.

B-mac · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:29:43 PM »

Quote

Having said that, B&M didn't really design their layouts back then anyways, Stengle did.

Well, whoever's been designing the new B&M's needs to get their act together. Most of the hypers as of late (2007-on) aren't very good.

AV Matt · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:53:36 PM »

Millennium Force 44 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:02:58 PM »

Quote from: B-mac on March 31, 2011, 06:29:43 PM

Well, whoever's been designing the new B&M's needs to get their act together. Most of the hypers as of late (2007-on) aren't very good.

hahaha I literally laughed from this comment. nice

Bubba Z · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:11:30 PM »

   Amusement Park   Type   Design   Status   Opened
Apollo's Chariot
Behemoth   5/4/2008
Diamondback 4/18/2009
Goliath   Sfog
Goliath   La Ronde
Hollywood Dream: The Ride
Intimidator   Carowinds   Steel   Sit Down   Operating   3/27/2010
Nitro
Raging Bull
Silver Star

I guess those three aren't that good out of the ten hypers. ?

Edwardo · « **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:55:43 PM »

I happen to think intimidator is very good.

AV Matt · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:01:20 PM »

When the trims don't hit you mean.

B-mac · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:04:06 PM »

Whoops, hit seven instead of six... Why would I imply that Goliath @ La Ronde was good?

AV Matt · « **Reply #40 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:10:58 PM »

Some people claim it's great. My couple of rides were nothing exciting.

dkny6363 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:12:55 PM »

I just think they are becoming old news, and too common. I'm glad there isn't one being built in NA for 2011. It's like the only thing B&M builds anymore around here. I guess thats why wing ridders have starded production. I don't know what this has to do with drachen Fire though

dkny6363 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:14:16 PM »

^^ You just hate french people

AV Matt · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:58:37 PM »

Behemoth pwned Goliath for best Canadian hyper. I don't think they are old news at all. They just keep disappointing. B&M really got it right with Goliath over Georgia and ever since, their new rides have become very inconsistent with trim brakes either giving a great ride or a crappy ride. Even reviews for Intimidator range from best steel coaster ever to just another B&M depending on how many trims hit that time around.

dkny6363 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 01, 2011, 01:14:23 AM »

I can`t talk too much cuz i`ve only ridden 3. From pictures and POV`s I can see what you guys are saying, especially in the case of Goliath (georgia). The one thing I really like about the new models are the trains. I really like the v-shape trains. Behemoth is very basic but due to its location there isn`t a whole lot else they could do with it more than an out and back. But as we all know the ending is weak. Goliath (que) has a soft turnaround, and thats my favourite part of the 3 i`ve been on, especially behemoth. Diamonback hasa bit of a interesting layout but it seems so soft. Nitro was cool in all ways but I think I got a bad ride. Also I don`t prefer the 4 across trains. I can`t wait to ride goliath, and apollos. Bull intreagues me cuz it`s different. it`s the worst one though isn`t it?

Edwardo · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2011, 11:01:33 AM »

Actually, Matt, even with the trims, it's a good coaster. Without the 2nd trim, it's amazing.

AV Matt · « **Reply #46 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:35:50 PM »

A giant coaster like that should always be great. You don't need to go over 50 feet tall to be a good coaster.

Millennium Force 44 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 02, 2011, 07:50:34 PM »

In my opinion I dislike the new trains. I know I am probably one of the only people who do, but I think the old trains are much more fitting for a B&M hyper coaster.
Having been on Behemoth, Diamondback, and Intimidator, I only think Behemoth is great. I understand that B&M hypers are very suceptible to many variables (temperature, time of day, trims) as I have been on Nitro many times and sometimes have an amazing ride while other times have weak rides, and having only ridden Diamondback once and Intimidator twice, I can't hate on them too much.

AV Matt · « **Reply #48 on:** April 02, 2011, 07:58:29 PM »

I don't mind the new trains, but I also don't think there was anything wrong with the old ones.

Edwardo · « **Reply #49 on:** April 04, 2011, 12:43:08 PM »

I prefer the new trains. Especially if you're sitting in the 2nd row of the first car. I always prefer trains with 2 rows as opposed to trains with one row because it always seems that in certain seats (like Magnum's 1-3) you get some great airtime. The 2nd and especially 4th rows on Intimidator are great regardless of if the trim is hitting or not.

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Author Topic: Cool Drachen Fire Article (Read 10120 times)