Great Adventure Outpost
Great Adventure Boards => Great Adventure Chit Chat => Topic started by: DianaR on January 10, 2006, 01:59:28 PM
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What do you think? Let's talk! :!:
To me it is looking like El Torro is going to be the last big bang for a little while. We have had many people make some brilliant (some not so much to!) ideas on how the park can improve and not add a new coaster. With all the talk and rumor going on, what do you see for the future and, what is your opinion on it? Do you think this family emphasizing is going to hurt just coaster enthusiasts and, thrill seekers? Also, how do you see this affecting the fansites who rely on off season construction to stay active and alive when there are no TR's to write?
I am really happy we are going to focus on families and, it is NOT just because I have a family. Speaking of which, I have to go get my kids from school so I'll come back to answer this more later LOL. :P
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I hope this is not the end of the coaster building era for gadv. I'm all for the family orientated attractions going in , and I'm all for the stated (clean , safe , fun) atmosphere. I would like to see alot of fun things for all types of people from little toddlers to the adults who are terrified of thrill rides and finally to the coaster addicts like me. For the most part coasters have been the bread and butter for gadv over the years. I can see changes being made to transform gadv more like ( The disney world park of the north) , but I hope its not done at the expense of giving up big thrill rides and coasters all together. Hopefully there is a happy median with the decisions made in the future.
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For me, I agree with taking a break with the coasters and consentrating on improving the theme park as a whole. I also would like them to concentrate on Hurricane Harbor as well. But, I don't want 10 years without a major coaster.
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I would have to say 5 years without a major coaster is definitaly possible. However, what do we define as a "major" coaster? Is Pandemonium at SFNE a major one? I would love to have a pandemonium and I think a coaster the whole family can really enjoy is something we are desperatley missing at GADV
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I'm all for going 5 years without a new coaster. After getting 5 coasters in 8 years, I think we have more than enough (Medusa, Nitro, S:UF, KK, ET) to last for those years. What I'm hoping they do is add/bring back much more flats, dark rides, and family rides. Those things are sorely lacking at GAdv, we need more to do when the coasters' lines are too long.
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It is good that family attractions are going in and the atmosphere is cleaning up, but there has to also be investment into thrills, GADV being a major amusement park. I wouldn't mind a small coaster such as a Spinning mouse or an Impulse. I would be really disappointed if we went more than 3 years without a major flat ride or any type of coaster.
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i know we need more family rides. The theming is something that will obviously get better in the years to come.. and i am very happy to see all of this comin to our park. In the future maybe they will have a park like IOA.. that will be popular with the younger crowds.
however in order to become a park of IOA status.. we NEED that kind of theming. We also need a few awesome flat rides.. and a good indoor ride as well. We have no dark rides.
I am more than willing to give up coasters for a few years IF we get great theming.. flat rides.. and a great dark ride in return. Otherwise.. its a total loss for me and i may not renew my pass while im in college.
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Yup, can't forget about themeing. A Sally ride would be a plus, as well as flats. I can live about 5 years without a coaster, but that's only if we get some awsome flats.
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Yes, I agree. Flats and better theming and re-theming of areas around the park.
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I believe it was on TPR where someone noted that Shapiro said something to the effect of "For the price of a Tatsu, or a Kingda Ka, a park can do almost all of the necessary renovations that it would need to make itself renewed and refreshed." If we were to spend that kind of money getting the rest of the park up to GK status for 2007, I have no problem with that. You can add a flat like the larger Screamin Swings (http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/rides/thrill/skyhawk/index.cfm), or a Giant Frisbee (http://www.flatrides.com/Ride%20Index%20Pages/giantfrisbee.html) to keep the turnstiles churning. As long as the thrillseekers get little things to tide them over through the years, we should be fine. I'd throw some sort of coaster in after 5 years, wether it be as small as a Eurofighter (http://www.rcdb.com/ig2229.htm), or as large as a new Gravity Group woodie.
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I think that atleast for Six Flags and much of the US we'll see a decrease in monster record breakers and see an increase in mid-sized woodies and flat rides. I believe that SF execs won't spend more than a few million on a roller coaster. I think we'll see coasters in the 4-8 million range rather than the larger 15-30 range. So, like many have stated I think we'll see more in the way of family flatrides that will be something to market with less capital spending.
PM
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I think concentrating on improving the Flat Ride selection and HH is what needs to be done after this year.
Take 2007 off from coaster building. Come back in 2008 and build a family coaster. WAY too may 54" coasters in the park.
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I think that SF will concentrate on theming and flats in our park. They know how many coasters we have and such and its only a matter of time before we get flats and dark rides. The other thing they need is cool shows like Hypnosteria. I have seen Hypnosteria 10 times and its funnier everytime. You also get a lot of teens and families because its funny, entertaining and its on a personal level in that your friend or brother/sister might actually be on stage.
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What I think is going to happen is that competition will force a new coaster to rise meaning that Dorney or Hershey, thats if that happens and if Snyder/Shapiro decide to keep/bring back their biggest demograph. Our park could definately use some flats, we have been bleeding to death with our flat collcection.
Lets look at this realistically......SFI is now not going to be building huge awsome coasters. Paramount is up for sale so they wont either, that means that CP will have little competition (Aunheiser Busch) and they too will possibly slow down their coaster building. The U.S. will see a decline in monster coasters built...but Europe is just getting their hands on these rides.
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^There is not many, if any 10+ coaster parks in Europe. Europe goes for proven coaster designs and they usually come out great. CF will still add onto their coaster collection and I think SF will begin once again after they get every park cleaned up and profitable. SFI didn't get in debt by being profitable and building coasters when they could afford them. :lol:
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Busch parks don't have any presence near any SF parks with the exception of Six Flags Fiesta TX. Sea World San Diego is not in the same market as SFMM IMO. They are 4 hours apart and, IMO, not competing for the same market.
Same with CF. The only CF park that is close to a Busch park is Knott's, and again, different Demographic.
It seems, to me at least, that CF is taking the old SF "Bigger is Better" line, attempting to appeal more to thrill-seekers yet forgetting what it was that made their parks great.
Knott's comes to mind. Knott's, to be quite honest, was my favorite park to go to (except Disney) in the 90's. Even when **gasp** Windjammer was there. The park was ran great, the staff was friendly (They used to call themselves the Friendliest place in the West, and it was true). When Ghostrider opened it was without a doubt the #1 woodie in the world. MANY people who have been on more coasters than me have stated this.
But once CF came in they took out the charm of the park and the friendly attitude is now gone.
I hear so many good things about CP staff but I see none of it at Knott's.
Sad.
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^ I am not so sure the staff at Cedar Point is all that good either , everybody has a bad day.
For me, I agree with taking a break with the coasters and concentrating on improving the theme park as a whole. I also would like them to concentrate on Hurricane Harbor as well. But, I don't want 10 years without a major coaster.
Chuck , I would think BY 2010, they do need to realize they still need to compete in the market. Hopefully he runs it like his football team. (Well not that bad, but they are in the playoffs) always looking for the best new player to make his team better. In this case, he should be looking for a better ride. Which could be anything from a dark ride, a flat to a 50 million dollar parking lot tram. Will just have to wait and see.
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sir clinksalot- SFA is near BGW, so yeah. Good post though, I agree that CF is going in the opposite direction.
Back on topic- I have a feeling GASDV will keep getting coasters to compete for the record, and to keep attracting and make us a full fledged resort. That may mean ripping out old rides, but I have a feeling this era hasn't ended quite yet.
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If BGW is near SFA, then Hershey, Dorney, and Great Adventure are all near SFA! :P SFMM is closer to Sea World San Diego than SFA is to BGW!
...but I get your point.
And actually, when were Busch Parks ever a force in the "Coaster Wars?". Busch gets new coasters less than ANY of the parks!
I would prefer as a whole to see the "Bigger is Better" thing slow down and get back to QUALITY rides and better park experiences. It seems like the new crew at SFI agrees.
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I wouldn't mind a coaster for a few years. In fact, I can't think of one coaster we need in the park right now. Another family coaster would be nice, but we already have SM and RMT. I'd love a Pandemonium-esque coaster, but it really isn't NEEDED. Here what I want over the next few years-
1. More flat rides. We NEED more flats. They can go two ways with this. They could get a number of flats over the rcourse of few years, or install a big, new flat each year. I'd be satisfied with both, but I really think we could use some small flats to fill in the holes.
2. Better theming. The park basically has no theming besides the GK. The Movietown section could be themed so much better than it is today, including the Batman rides. Give some theme to FA, too. It looks pretty bland IMO.
3. Rides running. Keeping rides running has been a problem for the park for whos knows how long. I don't think I've ever been to the park when everyride was running. Since other theme parks in the area seem to do it with no problem (Hershey and Dorney, from what I saw last season, had ALL of their rides open, I don't know why it is so hard for GAdv.
4. Keep it clean. I think over the next few years, they park should try to keep it clean. I'm not just talking about the walkways, but I'm also talking about gum on Medusa's station, smoking in queue lines, and the rust of Nitro's station. There are many things that could easily be cleaned up in the park, and I'd love to see that over the next few years.
There's what I think should be done..hopefully... :shock:
-KKR05
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I think you ^, are going to get your wish considering everything this article says.. http://www.ajc.com/news/content/business/stories/0126bizsixflags.html
But, It's looking like more then a few years before we see another coaster. I quote.. "One of his biggest moves, though, is to no longer rely on adding expensive thrill rides to juice up attendance. While the attractions hook teens, the attendance spike usually lasts just a year, Shapiro said. "They never pay for themselves."
Six Flags Over Georgia will unveil a mammoth ride this year: the $20 million Goliath, which was approved before Shapiro joined the company. He said flatly, "You won't see any more Goliaths."
This quote is all over the internet ! LOL I guess I wasn't so "out of line" when I started this thread. :? This does bring me back to a question I asked that has been avoided... CP Fansites have been quiet this season (With the exception of the topic about what's coming next) because there is no major construction going on. How do we suppose this will affect SF fansites all together when there is no huge coaster installment to cover over the future off-seasons?
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I hope he continues to give us something to talk about.
Maybe what he means is.. there will be no blatant major coasters thrown around in a park like that was.. and others. no more parkinglot coasters and such. Maybe he means if hes going to put in a ride.. that its going to be something special.
one could say that its definetely open to interprutation.
so far.. i do not like what i am reading. Ill open it up more when i get home from school.
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I hope he continues to give us something to talk about.
Maybe what he means is.. there will be no blatant major coasters thrown around in a park like that was.. and others. no more parkinglot coasters and such. Maybe he means if hes going to put in a ride.. that its going to be something special.
one could say that its definetely open to interprutation.
Nick, I think he will give us plenty to talk about. :D We just aren't sure what exact diretion it's going to take. I would love to see a ride like Paramount's Stunt Job Coaster or, a Sally interactive dark ride. If that is how he plans on bringing the guests back along with fixing all the Customer service issues etc.. then I am all for it. The thing is, we don't know if he plans on bringing in new rides at all.
One of his articles mentioned him wanting to emphasize on shows and television. I think maybe we could use two more shows but, is he going to go overboard with this? Who knows! We have three Kiddie sections but, we need more thrill flats for the tweeners. My son Dane at 44 inches, is not interested in baby rides or, huge adult rides. I hope it is there when regarding families, that he concentrates for a while. That is what I feel is truly missing, besides the obvious service issues.
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Hey Diana I hear you there need to be more family flats. We all also know my stand on the parent swap how it is sort of crazy with the lines they have to expect the kids to wait in line . I did e-mail the park over the past two days and was told they are working on something sort of like what CP has . I don't really believe it till I see it. At least your son is 44 inches mine is only 40 and there really isn't much for him except baby rides when he thinks he can ride KK :lol: . I can't wait to see BBNP hopefully it will have a good mix for the really little ones and the kind of older ones too. I also hope they open the train in the GK this year or move it so it runs . My son loves trains and boy is he not happy that thing isn't working.
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Hey Diana I hear you there need to be more family flats. We all also know my stand on the parent swap how it is sort of crazy with the lines they have to expect the kids to wait in line . I did e-mail the park over the past two days and was told they are working on something sort of like what CP has . I don't really believe it till I see it. At least your son is 44 inches mine is only 40 and there really isn't much for him except baby rides when he thinks he can ride KK :lol: . I can't wait to see BBNP hopefully it will have a good mix for the really little ones and the kind of older ones too. I also hope they open the train in the GK this year or move it so it runs . My son loves trains and boy is he not happy that thing isn't working.
I am going to ask about that train for you but, I am willing to bet that fixing that was in the plans before Snyder took over. There is possibly going to be something that could become a favorite to your 40 inch son as I know my 44 inch boy would enjoy this to. I am just not at liberty to spoil anything right now. :) Being a fellow parent I can assure you that this site will focus on every aspect of the park and not just the "thrilling" stuff. Wade and a few others have spouses and kids to so the parent's perspective of the park is always going to be a strong factor here. 8)
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At least Snyder & Shapiro can't tell HP and DP what to do. If they want to put in new coasters, there's nothing Snyder can do about it. :D
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sooner or later he will realize that a park needs balance. We are out of the balance right now with family anf flat rides. But once that department is covered, throw in some theming, and than he may look towards dark rides and that aort.
he wont stop putting in the big rides. Thats what sells the most!
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I feel we are good enough with family/kids (3 sections devoted to them is more than most parks out there).
I agree with flats, and maybe a good dark ride. We have been rigged of all our good flats, and Spongebob is a good ride, but not a true dark ride.
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At least in the article he had the other boats put on the track, hopefully he can get enough people that all rides can run more cars. I don't see how more boats adds to the cost of running the ride though, not to mention that more boats will only increase capacity with good employees, but it looks good.
Good thing we had El Toro for this year, and not the usual 2 years or no Toro for us! Just get more exciting family flats and I'll be happy though.
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Hey Diana I hear you there need to be more family flats. We all also know my stand on the parent swap how it is sort of crazy with the lines they have to expect the kids to wait in line . I did e-mail the park over the past two days and was told they are working on something sort of like what CP has . I don't really believe it till I see it. At least your son is 44 inches mine is only 40 and there really isn't much for him except baby rides when he thinks he can ride KK :lol: . I can't wait to see BBNP hopefully it will have a good mix for the really little ones and the kind of older ones too. I also hope they open the train in the GK this year or move it so it runs . My son loves trains and boy is he not happy that thing isn't working.
I am going to ask about that train for you but, I am willing to bet that fixing that was in the plans before Snyder took over. There is possibly going to be something that could become a favorite to your 40 inch son as I know my 44 inch boy would enjoy this to. I am just not at liberty to spoil anything right now. :) Being a fellow parent I can assure you that this site will focus on every aspect of the park and not just the "thrilling" stuff. Wade and a few others have spouses and kids to so the parent's perspective of the park is always going to be a strong factor here. 8)
Hey that is not fair now you are just teasing me :lol: . Can't wait my son is a train nut (thomas the tank is our life !!!) so i really am hopeful that train or another train comes along into the park.
Yes I am glad to see other parents around here . I have 3 and with two that are going to be 14 and 11 this summer the 4 year old doesn't really stand a chance . I am also glad we are not the only coaster parents out there . :wink:
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From what that article stated , all I can say is , thank god we got KK and ET when we did. Looks like what we have , is all we will be getting from now on in the big coaster department.
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After reading the article, i belive the coaster era is indeed over. I also belive Snyder and Shapiro may actually hate coasters period. I do know people who hate coasters and see them as a big waste of money that could have been better spent elsewhere. These people also don't understand why people like us like them and enjoy them.
Question: Is it possible construction of El Toro was moved up a year 'cause sombody with insider knowledge knew Snyder was coming and how he felt about big coaster installations? Just a thot here.
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I think NOW that we have EL Toro the Coaster balance is complete at least few a few years and I don't think Kingda Ka will be topped for a few years.
There is no need to spend 20 Million for a great coaster
look back at the last few years and the top coasters are small / medium woodies. they pack a lot of bang for the buck at a 1/3 of the cost.
Thunderhead
Balder dash
etc. fill in your favorite
and the little Kickbutt J2 coaster (4.5 million) one mile from my home.
we need better designs not just big big big (Quality not quantity)
I also think EL Toro brings a mix of both we all will know in a few months.
don't get me wrong I love Kingda Ka and others, as you can see in my smile in my avatar blue shirt front seat.
There are many new small footprint less costly rocket coasters shown a recent trade shows which can fit into any park and give great thrills. the current First drop Magazine shows many compact designs.
See ya at Eastcoaster Feb 4th
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Six Flags biggest issue was that debt load that they are carrying. I think that his No New Coasters stance will bite them in the butt in the future. People will see that other parks will be building these monuements into the sky , and will travel to them.
I do believe once Sndyer and Shaprio see the gate attendance drop due to the new policy , it will get changed quickly. They are talking all these 3D imeression rides. How many times are you going to want to see Sharky the fish in 3D? There is only so many times that people will want to see Sharky save the day, then it's Rollercoaster time.
I have to admit, with all the gate re-entry issues that cropped up, Six Flags Corporate has done a real good job souring me to their product.I still plan to visit Six Flags , but no as much as I use to in the past.
Just my Opinion
Bruce................................................
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I absolutely agree with what you said. I feel a year or two off may be nessicary bu only as long as they add other rides that are sorely missed.
THey will see a drop in attendance when the coasters are put on hold though. I think that will change once they see what happens.