Great Adventure Outpost
Industry => Industry News => Topic started by: GADVwow on July 10, 2008, 07:10:05 PM
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Yes, 91 CENTS, down 82 percent in the past year.
That's what Six Flags stock closed at today.
Oh, Cedar Fair aka FUN? $16.69. A new 52 week low, down 42 percent in the past year.
Yep, gas prices are helping both, just like Messrs Kinzel, Falfas, Snyder and Shapiro have predicted.
Not.
Sigh.
I wonder how much further the market plunge will go? And how long it is before the unsolicited hostile takeover offers start? Or before SIX files bankruptcy or FUN defaults on bank loan covenants requiring certain performance levels?
ADMIN EDIT: I adjusted the title to reflect the 48 cents it closed at today. Read through the topic as we discuss its drop :(
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This better be a damn good quarterly report. And even that probably won't help much.
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It's downright disgusting. The whole market sucks right now, but being at the bottom of a barrel of crap is just...crappy. It really doesn't deserve to be that low. It's only because of the false hopes that impatient investors gave themselves that the stock is in this current mess. Not that the old regime's old mess didn't 'help' out.
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.91 is very very bad. I forget what happens when a stock dips below $1 in the stocks.
I just hope that the new regime gets enough time to prove that their ideas can work...
What is Disney doing in these times?
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a. When a stock goes below $1 and stays there at least thirty days, the exchange CAN (but sometimes does not) delist it, making it trade either on another exchange (unlikely) or over the counter (very expensive, by comparison). Most delisted stocks soon end up in more serious financial trouble.
B. Disney closed at $29.60 yesterday, down 13.6 percent in the past 52 weeks. Parks are a significant, but relatively small part of their business.
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the weathers been great this year so far
for at least this region
but yes they need to do something big if the #'s don't come out good
but if you want to make some quick $ this is the time
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Maybe, maybe not. That which goes down does not necessarily go up. It may go down, down, down, down, down, down and then be worthless. Time will tell.
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Today's SIX close? 89 cents. Down another two cents...
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Finished at $0.88, That is not good and as Wade said, the Quarterly Reports could be the difference between sink or swim :-/
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I just don't understand why it can even grow to be this low in the first place. Like besides investors, what other ways will the stock go up? I don't understand what makes it go up and down.
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What makes it go up or down? Investors' expectations of making earnings, getting their money back, or not....
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I understand the investors play a large part but the actual controlling the price of the stock. What determines how much money each stock should cost?
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What a willing buyer will pay for it AND a willing seller will sell it for...when there is agreement between the two, the price is thus determined...on the stock exchange.
It's like the definition of fair market value: What a willing buyer would pay a willing seller with both having full knowledge of the relevant facts and circumstances with neither being compelled to act. It is also assumed it is an arm's length transaction, with no hanky-panky involved.
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Well the stock market as a whole is down and is now currently a bear market
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And now, with the strong possibility that the Busch parks may be divested, there will be even more downward pressure on SIX and FUN.
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What will happen to busch parks. Will they be sold or will they get the GL treatmment
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/\ I don't know but please take the AB situation to the InBev Buying A-B thread :D
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And so today SIX was down 12.5%, 11 cents, to 77 cents.
Sigh.
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Oh boy....what happens from here?
When do the quarterly reports come out?
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I honestly do not think that the quarterly reports are going to do anything. It seems like investors are expecting an overnight Disney type of park or something.
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In the last half hour of trading today, SIX essentially collapsed. It closed at 52 CENTS, down nearly 40 percent in the last half hour alone....with a market cap of 50.8 million dollars. I see no way this can continue for long...
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Is it just me or does this almost seem intentional to let it collapse?
Shouldn't Snyder and Co. be out and about doing some PR? Hitting the airwaves to anyway they can?
I agree, it can't continue for long. I said it before, it gets removed by the beginning of August. And I can see a bankruptcy sale shortly after :(.
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It's even worse. The final figure issued by the NYSE for today's SIX close is 48 CENTS, down 43.5%, with a market cap of 46,86 million....
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Is it just me or does this almost seem intentional to let it collapse?
Some thought that was Snyder's plan all along.
But who would want to buy all that debt for 47 million? Not a real bargain.
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At least one trade today went through at . . . 25 cents a share!
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Its sad to see but shapiro won't get the time he needs to fix things at .49 cents.
Clint. The overnight monster was born because of the consistant past mistakes the frustrated investors
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http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2008/07/16/update-six-flagging-28/
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Six Flags Shares Plunge 44 Percent:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/2d81eac78231d1e50a1fb1d01239b566.htm
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It's not difficult to figure out the reason why most other parks (and chains) don't use the 54'' coaster as their star attraction, but use it as an "also run." Appealing only to the 12 to 24 demographic for 20 years is hitting the fan now. When I'm going to Hershey, I'm not only thinking about riding Storm Runner or Voodoo at Dorney, but I'm thinking about the whole experience like I get at Disney and Busch.
Time Warner and Premer did allot of damage. At this park alone, swings, a shoot-the-chutes, a scrambler, monster spin and a dark ride would have done better with the general public and for the revenue than Viper, Chiller, Medusa, S.U.F and Ka and it would have cost much less money. The park already had these things rides too. I don't know why Six Flags preferred to have a coaster that they have no need to open before noon, a coaster that is constantly panned by the park's biggest fans, a break down nightmare and two coasters that wouldn't even reach their 10th anniversary (how many coasters can't even reach this meer milestone) over safe, reliable, family-friendly rides that EVERYBODY likes.
Most of us knew that the coaster-building craze was a mistake. Then again, most of us aren't 12-24. If Six Flags survives, I hope they listen to their consumers this time and keep their eyes off the 15 yr olds. I always thought Mr. Six was a bit of a perv.
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So did the people that ran Six Flags back then all move to today's Cedar Fair? How long will it be before the chickens come home to roost there?
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Well Cedar Fair has done it too, but to a lesser extreme. That dog is going to have its day, but thankfully for them, they only pampered Cedar Point. They took care of their family rides, which is more important.
The Point has a huge spin ride collection that equals their coaster count and a flat ride collection that appeals to EVERYBODY. Cedar Fair has made one, maybe two bad decisions when it comes to choosing thrill rides over family rides (Hydra and Mantis are the only two that come to mind for me,) but our park alone had 8. That's too many screw ups.
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Really? Look at more recent years decisions...they greatly resemble those of Gary Story's Six Flags, except Maverick, perhaps. Top Thrill Dragster, Mean Streak, Wicked Twister (which was a near rip off of Superman: Ultimate Escape over in Aurora)...buying too many parks too fast, laying off middle management to beat the band, and most of all, thinking installations of thrill rides will keep the public coming more than anything else will....and, perhaps biggest of all, greatly increasing in park pricing while comparatively giving away the gate and season passes...
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Cedar Point does have too many coasters, but if anybody was going to build TTD, it would have been CP. Somebody had to learn the lesson with it...or should have. But they didn't rip out their spin ride collection and they have many other family rides that SFGAdv, SFMM, SFStL, SFOG, SFA and SFKK do not have. CP's non-coaster collection over powers in numbers its coaster collection. The same can not be said for the aforementined Six Flags parks. Plus I gotta say that WT and TTD are far more impressive than Medusa and SUF, IMO. The most well-balanced Six Flags parks are SFGAm, SFOT, SFFT, SFDK and SFNE and they all just received new family coasters-- or were supposed to. That alone makes not surprised that investors are tired and impatient. I hope all goes well with the Quaterly, but I have little confidence that Snyder and Shapiro have the right answers.
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I have little confidence that the company as currently constituted will still be solvent by August 4, when the quarterly results are supposed to be announced....this was a day when the market in general rallied...and in the last half hour the company's stock lost more than 40 percent of its value. Something caused this...and I doubt it is good.
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CF is following the footprints...i mean do you go to CP to ride the flats? Also doesn't buying paramount sound similar to europe?? CF may very well be this deep soon
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Didn't see these posts sorry
Buti hate to say this but will SIX survive til Aug 2nd?
There are mistakes but in defense the industry as a whole is on life support.
One more key point...did the parks SIX sold chop away at the debt or slow it down?
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This is absurd. It doesn't even seem fair anymore to be honest. It's a cartoon...
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The parks Six Flags sold went for comparatively very little, and didn't even put a sizable dent in the debt. And don't forget, supposedly there were more real estate sales coming, about which nothing has been heard since.
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Rock and a hard place...
The only parks that could actually put a sizable dent in the debt load are the big guns like Great Adventure, Magic Mountain, Georgia, St. Louis, Texas, etc. But if they sold these off they wouldn't have the crutch any longer to sustain the other properties. Parks like Great Adventure most likely carry a HUGE load for the underperforming properties.
Meanwhile, they talked and talked about selling off property for land and now they missed the boat due to the economic situation. It wouldn't even be worth selling now. Thankfully, I'm selfishly happy about that since the land in Jackson NJ was certainly being considered lol
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Amusement parks are an American tradition. People are going to go for the experience. Only money or maturity can change that.
I'm guessing Six Flags problem is a money issue. There is always a youth market. Whether it was the price of admission going too high over the past couple of years that has turned people away or the lack of focus by management that made guests feel that the admission price was not worth the experience, something has been turning people off. El Toro, Kingda Ka, Nitro, Batwing, Jokers Jinx, Raging Bull, V2, X2, the Goliaths, the S.U.F.s, the S.R.O.Ss, the Medusas, the Mr. Freezes and the Batmans are still around, so it can't be the youth dollar. Weather has been great this year, save for some flooding around Chicago. Weather was great last year, save for some flooding in Texas.
Is it a money issue? The economy was going like gangbusters a couple of years ago and the stock has been going down for quite a few years, so it can't be the economy. The last few owners have screwed with the amusement park formula. Kids and teens and thrill riders like the spin rides, adults alike enjoy the flats and everybody takes in a show. It seems like the problem was brought on moreso by decissions by the management for which they had control over, and not the economy of which they have no control.
Now the question is, why did they do it? It seems like Wade is onto something...
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European investors can pick this up very cheap even if they offer it at triple the currant stock price.
Since the dollar is worth 61 cents to the Euro they would get it very cheap just like the Inbev deal.
Looks like our country is being bought out by foreign countries and I expect to see more of this .
IBM sold PC division a few years ago to Lenovo a Chinese company etc. etc. etc.
While George Bush is sitting on his ass spending $5000 a second on the Iraq war
that's like spending $151,000 per person per year.
Like I said a few months ago you will remember this time of your life where costs of everything skyrocketed
everything is based on Oil at least Wholesale gas prices are down this week about 25 cents a gallon which in my area will show about $3.61 at the pump in a week.
thanks George Bush you will go down in history as the biggest jackass president in history
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(ugghh, this host is killing me....67 seconds to load this freaking page)
Anyway, in an interesting twist, the stock is climbing fast today and it is presumably because of the item mentioned in the news side-bar on the right...
10:46AM Six Flags says performance to-date has positioned it to be free cash flow positive for the first time in the history of the company
So why on earth did they just NOW decide to react? Did they not know this last week? I'm glad to see them finally doing something to counter the sliding stock but its really going to take a miracle in the Q2 results to pull this out of the toilet.
On the flip side, at this price one does have to wonder if it would be worth gobbling up a ton of shares on just the chance that the results are outstanding? It would have so little risk that it might even be fun just to see what happens :D
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I bought more shares around $1 last week
if I knew it would drop to $.50 I could be up pretty good
I just don't have anymore to throw at it
but this is the time to do it to average down and I also think with the Nice weather this Year so far they should have good numbers.
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Amen Wade. ;)
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Please, PLEASE don't quote me on this but I have this feeling that they have outstanding results for Q2. Perhaps they are playing a sneaky game of cards here but I can see the logic. For senior staff to be sitting back and watching the ship sink with little to no comment two weeks before tells me something is up.
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Just noticed the article on the right - Today was Six Flags largest one day gain since 1996 and are cash flow positive for the first time in its history. Will the shareholders hold out one more year?
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I knew I should have bought 100 shares yesterday! Damn...
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I am still a firm believer that building 3 coasters at once spoiled MM so rotten that you will only go down across the board
Anybody know the quote that's some like "You can take the boy out of New York but you can't take the New York out of the boy"
I am positive that quote hits it on the head. Replace boy with fan base and NY with coaster hunger
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They are going to have to get used to it for a while RBW. A good coaster is a good coaster. I never understood why a coaster has to be brand new to be good. Most of my favorite flat rides are old. I go to parks for flat rides. They are the lure to places like that Mariner's Landing, Playlands Castaway Cove, Rye Playland Knoebels and Canobie Lake and many other amusement parks across the country. It would be the smarter direction for SF to cure itself from its "coaster addiction."
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The big theme parks do rely more on coasters than those parks mentioned IMO. Where they went wrong was adding TOO many big coasters while removed flats. There is nothing wrong with having some of these big rides if you balance it out right. Somehow, IOA and the Busch parks do it just fine. Even Disney to a certain degree.
I know a few folks on here will disagree with me but to me, the only "real" mistakes in the building boom at GAdv were Superman and ka (and chiller before they finally gave up). Otherwise, the remaining rides do a good job at what they do, are relatively effecient and feel as though they belong there. They went wrong when they started removing the balance. And I don't blame the current regime for that. Shapiro had to restore cash flow and operating a 25 year flat that hasn't been maintained or can't get parts for is just silly. He had to be the evil hatchet man but its working if the recent report was any indication. Dan, I think that balance is going to start coming back now to if they pull through this horrible slide.
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I'll add Medusa to that list. What came along in '99 were some of the best things to happen to this park in a long time but what it is left from the mainstream rides of that year is not so much. With Houdini closed, Blackbeards is the only hot ride left from '99.
What Six Flags forgot about over the years was that their parks are local parks, like the parks I mentioned above. The parks were built on mainstream spin, flat and other "family" rides. Along the line in the Time Warner era, the company saw itself as theme park operators comparable to Disney. All was well from a marketing stand point, until it got carried away with steel loopers toward the end and Premier pushed it over the deep end. Disney does well with big attractions-- geared towards everybody, save for an occasional height restriction. Busch parks truely are destination parks. Their parks have a reasonable amount of spin and other non-coaster mainstream rides. Six Flags forgot about these type of rides, especially at its flagship parks.
Shapiro seemed to agree that it wasn't only the price of the excessive B&Ms and shuttle and launch coasters that caused Six Flags problem. By his "no more Goliaths" statement, he seemed to agree that it was the price of telling their guests that if they didn't like extreme coasters, they needed to go elsewhere.
Shapiro added to the problem by adding $25 million worth of coasters at parks that already have a well balanced ride collection. That price could have bought allot of replacement attractions (or parts) for SFGAdv and SFMM, and maybe a mainstream ride or two for SFoG and SFKK. People may not come to Six Flags to ride the tilt-a-whirl, but I think it brings in more than a cabana, a locker or product placement ads.