Some Clarification from Shapiro...

[overlord]

But thats herhsey! The sweetest town in america. Its a landmark/tourist spot. We are in jackson. Home of wetlands and about 20 miles from the beach. Theres nothing really exciting to do. I wouldnt make a resort at GADV. Maybe a hotel like best western or something but not a resort out of it.

[Nitro1118]

overlord- Realize something, GADV gets more attendance and makes more money than all other SF parks, and is right up there with CP and other high caliber parks. GADV is between about 3 major cities (1 of them being the biggest in the country), and a few others not too far away. GADV is in the perfect spot to attract ridiculous amounts of tourists. If they get a hotel and more improvements and get some good reviews from paper articles and maybe a small special on Discovery like SFMM got, people will be flocking to Jackson for the park like people do for CP, and sicne the beach is right there, it will be sure to attract.

[WadeJ]

Hmmm,  Disneyword..... swamp land... middle of nowhere.  Now look at it lol.

I wouldn't worry about that.  People will come if there is a reason to.  They need more year-round attractions, the hotel and a indoor waterpark.

[GADVwow]

There are already people who come to Jackson, New Jersey to go to Six Flags from well over 500 miles away.

People for whom Cedar Point is a little more than 200 miles, but CHOOSE to go to Great Adventure.

Trust me.

I know these things.

[chilled182]

Very good point wade.  PEople will come if they have a reason to do so.

Why not market holidays that are off season for rides!  Im sad they got rid of winterlights, i was going to take the drive up this year.  I hope they do something in the wintertime.  Itll keep me from going stir crazy

[ChuckR]

Just like Wade said, look at Disneyworld.

They would need hotel and indoor waterpark and maybe like restaraunts and a few arcades and such.

[Nitro1118]

There are already people who come to Jackson, New Jersey to go to Six Flags from well over 500 miles away.

People for whom Cedar Point is a little more than 200 miles, but CHOOSE to go to Great Adventure.

Trust me.

I know these things.

Umm no. CP attracts way more people outside of the general area than GADV does. GADV is blessed with being inbetween about 5 major cities, one being NYC. CP attracts from different countries, hence all the Travel Channel specials. GADV still doesn't attract anyone except people in general area and enthusiasts in other states. CP gets non-enthusiasts from toehr continents coming in.

Wade- I don't think making GADV year round is a good idea. CP, probably the most successful AMUSEMENT park, isn't a year round resort. Castaway Bay is outside of the park and no one will go to that in the offseason, except maybe locals. GADV should just be a resort in season, with maybe the Winter Lights gig and the hotel near KK open for that time of year as the exception. Also, Disney is different. They opened as the first ever theme park, and in places that were gonna be tourist detinations anyway. he wa sjust smart enough to buy a HUGE, HUGE chunk of land in the right spot with the right idea for a park.

[GADVwow]

For the record, Disney was NOT the first ever theme park, Holiday World, then known as Santa Claus Land, was.  August 3, 1946.  Long before Walt even had an idea for a park.

And I did not say more people travel to Great Adventure than to Cedar Point. I DID say there are people (and last I checked enthusiasts are people, too, though some give even me doubts) that, given a choice, come from more than 500 miles away to go to Great Adventure.  More than you might think.

The hotel is desperately needed.  I hope it gets built soon.

[Nitro1118]

There were a lot of small little parks like HW back then....but NONE incorperated rides and such with the theming, especially on the GRAND scale Disney did. And HW was never a theme park, just a classic amusement park in which Santa would meet children. If you meant amusement park, the oldest operating one is Lake Compunce in Connecticut.

But you did say people who are only 200 miles from CP choose GADV over CP. Only people I know who do that are people with not enough money to go to CP or whose parents don't like to take long road trips. And GADV is still a park in which mostly attracts locals. CP is a park that relies more on tourists from other states and such.

I agree a hotel is needed, but definately not desperately. GADV is doing just fine without one.

[GADVwow]

When you live 200 miles from CP and 500+ miles from Great Adventure, it is NOT cheaper to go to Great Adventure.  The car travel, hotels and even the prices at the two parks all add up to Cedar Point being more economical.  Those who CHOOSE to go to Great Adventure in such circumstances are certainly NOT doing it to save money.  (It is also a longer road trip to travel 500+ miles to Great Adventure than it is to go 200 miles to Cedar Point!)

And Holiday World widely claims to have been the first themed park, with themed areas.  It is largely accepted as such by the industry, at least as far as the USA goes.

http://themeparks.about.com/library/parks/blholidayworldb.htm

[Nitro1118]

MANY more people would choose (and have chosen) CP over GADV for vacations. That is FACT. Of course there are exceptions, but CP still is much more visited and populated by tourists from everywhere. GADV is mostly NYC/NJ crowds, with some from PA/Conn./etc...

[Robert T Ackerman]

Again, HW really isn't a theme park. If you consider it to be, that is fine. But even if it was the first, it still didn't mix in thrills with theme (HW doesn't have much theming). Disney was the first to mix in some thrills with theming that was NEVER before seen and way ahead of its. When you step into HW, past or present, you are still at "the local park", but when you go to Disney, you enter a brand new world. I consider Disney the first theme park.

I'm not trying to start any arguements or anything, but how isn't Holiday World a Theme Park? Sure its traditional... it's small, but the park has various sections, THEMED to different Holidays. Halloween, Christmas, 4th of July, and now Thanksgiving...

A park like LC is something I wouldn't consider a Theme Park... just another "local park"

All of the Disney parks are very well themed and they all feel like "a different world". I wouldn't put it in the same "category" as HW, but they are both theme parks in their own respects.

Knotts is the first theme park  :wink:

Rob, sorry to go off topic a little.

[depotrat]

Nitro:

Your argument that more people choose CP for vacations from further away (othe countries, etc.) illustrates the point that SFGADV needs the hotel.  CP gets most of this business because they have the hotels!!  SFGADV will never compete for that section of business without a hotel.  

We only live 125 miles from SFGADV and the first time we went as a family for the weekend I was aghast at the poor selection of lodging.  The hotel will be a great boon to the park.  I look for it to change to the Great Escape model with an indoor waterpark so the hotel can run all year.

[DianaR]

Nitro,
I work with the public. I can tell you that if your talking enthusiasts choosing CP over Gadv, yeah but, not the GP or locals. If I ask people what park do they think of when thinking vacation, almost all of them tell me Disney and company. Alot of people outside Ohio and surrounding states don't even know CP exsists but, everyone knows Disney. Your passion for CP is wonderful and, I enjoy squabbling with you once in a while but, I did see a point in time when you were for Gadv, I really wish you'd make up your mind lol. You really need to think about stuff in a broader spectrum and from more then just the enthusiast standpoint.

[chilled182]

Wade- I don't think making GADV year round is a good idea. CP, probably the most successful AMUSEMENT park, isn't a year round resort. Castaway Bay is outside of the park and no one will go to that in the offseason, except maybe locals. GADV should just be a resort in season, with maybe the Winter Lights gig and the hotel near KK open for that time of year as the exception. Also, Disney is different. They opened as the first ever theme park, and in places that were gonna be tourist detinations anyway. he wa sjust smart enough to buy a HUGE, HUGE chunk of land in the right spot with the right idea for a park.

my question is.. why NOT go all year round.  GADV is going to become more than CP in the coming years, i have no proof, im going on gut feelings here.  New management is showing signs of an north east Disney here, and i say why not.  Its about time someone grabs the success of Disney.. regardless of the weather patterns.  There are ways around that.

People need something to do in the winter around here or they WILL go to Disney.  WHy not market that?

[Nitro1118]

Nitro:

Your argument that more people choose CP for vacations from further away (othe countries, etc.) illustrates the point that SFGADV needs the hotel.  CP gets most of this business because they have the hotels!!  SFGADV will never compete for that section of business without a hotel.  

We only live 125 miles from SFGADV and the first time we went as a family for the weekend I was aghast at the poor selection of lodging.  The hotel will be a great boon to the park.  I look for it to change to the Great Escape model with an indoor waterpark so the hotel can run all year.

I agree 100%. I said a hotel is a great idea. But making an indoor waterpark and making it year round would be premature for now.

Frisbeeking- If you are going top call HW a theme park because each section is devoted to a holiday, that is your opinion. HW has no real theming, and if you consider HW a theme park, then you have to do the same for parks before it that had sections devoted to a central theme. It wasn't until Disney that they mixed true theming and thrills together, and made you enter a new world (which is the real point of theming a park).

Diana- I never compared Disney to CP vacation-wise. Never. But to say CP doesn't get many more tourist that are going just for the park that GADV gets is just wrong. As for which park I like more, that is not relevant to the conversation, but I like CP more, but GADV is almost right there.

Nick- CP has been a resort for a hundred years now. The mix of tradition, quality, and fame (CP does get all those specials on Discovery Channel and people from NJ actually know about it) makes CP a resort. It is gonna take years before GADV is with CP in that regard. I also have a feeling GADV will be more than CP, but not anytime soon. As for GADV being a year round resort, they should take it one step at a time. They don't even know if being an in season resort will work yet, let alone attracting people when there are no roller coasters to ride. And central NJ in the winter isn't exactly a winter wonderland or something to travel to. Also, new mangangement, namely Shapiro, haven't even touched on GADV yet. He hasn't even visited GADV yet, let alone call it a NE Disney. GADV will never be Disney. But they can be the best amusement park resort in the world, but that will take many years.

[DianaR]

I'm not comparing CP to Disney Per say, I am just saying that people aren't as CP aware as you make them out to be.

[Nitro1118]

My point being is that they are a lot more aware than they are of GADV. I am actually surprised how many people I have seen at GADV with shirts of CP, or in school, and it all goes back to it being probably the overall most famous amusement park in the world next to Cony Island.

[WadeJ]

Also, new mangangement, namely Shapiro, haven't even touched on GADV yet. He hasn't even visited GADV yet, let alone call it a NE Disney.

For obvious reasons, I can't elaborate but I can tell you for sure that he has already toured the property.  The discussions that occurred just weren't made public like they were at some of the other parks.

I agree though, they need to take baby steps to work this out.  I can see them opening for the holidays and then closing again at first.

[overlord]

overlord- Realize something, GADV gets more attendance and makes more money than all other SF parks, and is right up there with CP and other high caliber parks. GADV is between about 3 major cities (1 of them being the biggest in the country), and a few others not too far away. GADV is in the perfect spot to attract ridiculous amounts of tourists. If they get a hotel and more improvements and get some good reviews from paper articles and maybe a small special on Discovery like SFMM got, people will be flocking to Jackson for the park like people do for CP, and sicne the beach is right there, it will be sure to attract.

You make a good point. I could see a hotel being constructed but i dont see it becoming a resort. I dont know if its good that a hotel might be built or if its bad. I know more people = more money = more improvements. But then we lose with the lines and customer satisfaction drops off there for impatient people. I dont know. I would like to see GADV be popular but not so much so that it becomes a 240 acre disney park. If they establish parts of the park on pieces of land out past the lake then the park would be more spaced out and the lines wouldnt be so bad. I guess we just have to find the right balance.

[DianaR]

My point being is that they are a lot more aware than they are of GADV. I am actually surprised how many people I have seen at GADV with shirts of CP, or in school, and it all goes back to it being probably the overall most famous amusement park in the world next to Cony Island.

Really? That has not been the case for me. More people know SF then CF in my case. I see more Hershey Park shirts at Gadv then I do any CP shirts. Most of the time if I see a CP shirt it is a visiting Coaster Enthusiast. This year they may have been more prevelant because of KK. From my POV the picture is alot differant then yours.

[Nitro1118]

Of course more people know SF to CF...there are like 25 SF parks to CF's 7. More people from NJ go to Hershey because Hershey is only 3 hours away to CP which is 8 hours. But, CP is much more world renowned than GADV. You probably don't see much CP because you are in NJ most of the time, but go outside of GADV and many more people know CP than GADV (heck, I even saw a CP commercial in Vegas!).

[chilled182]

I'm not saying they should jump right into it.. I'm saying that its something that should most definitely be looked into more carefully.

And as for the jersey winter.  Its depressing because there's nothing to do any nowhere to go unless you leave the state.. for a place like Disney.  I'm saying.. give us something to DO in the WINTER.  we have NOTHING right now.  I think it would be gold if GADV were to capitalize on this.

[Nitro1118]

Except for Winter Lights, there is nothing really all that possible. Again, GADV should see if the in season resort works first. It is depressing NJ has nothing to do for winter, but there really aren't too many possibilities. Too bad GADV wasn't a little closer to Seaside, then they could do like fireworks and crap and make deals that if you stay at GADV's hotel, you get free access to that.

[Cyclonic]

I think you really need to expand your thinking on winter operations.  While mostly geared toward Christmas, several parks have made winter operations very successful, including Hershey and Dollywood.

The rides can run.  Dollywood runs there coasters in 40+ degree whether, and flats can be run in any temp.  GAdv could easlily run half the park, with several coasters, lots of different shows, as well as lighting up the park for the season.  They could not open until 4, and stay open until 10.  There is no reason it cannot succeed with the drawing capability they have.

As for the resorts, if an indoor waterpark can work, in all places, in Erie, there is no reason GAdv can't have one that books up year round.  Combined with a family entertainment center, I can see it becoming a major regional attraction in the winter.

GAdv has the space and the scenery that would work well as a year round resort.  I can just imagine a large resort hotel on the other side of the lake from the park, with an indoor waterpark, huge arcade, indoor kiddie rides and even a small coaster.  The whole thing could be connected to the park with a nice paddle wheel that cruises back and forth across the lake.

I think you are being very closed minded on the idea and not looking at the marketing potental the park has.  Further, you are not looking at what is indeed working for other parks that can easily be applied to GAdv.