Some Clarification from Shapiro...

[Cyclonic]

If your theory is true, and that an indoor waterpark is simply a suppliment to other winter activities, why is it an indoor waterpark has been thriving in Erie, PA for several years now?  I've been there in winter, and there is nothing else to do there.  An indoor waterpark is not a suppliment to the destination, it is the destination.  People will come down from NYC just to spend the weekend and get away from everything.

[GAcoaster]

The two indoor waterparks seem to do well all Winter in Sandusky Ohio, and God knows there's nothing to draw people there in the off season except cold wind and snow off the lake.

An indoor waterpark/resort would do really well just with locals who want to get away for a day or two, let alone the millions of people who live within a days drive.    If for some reason the attendance dropped off in the Winter (which I doubt), they can always run specials to get the locals in.  

In this video of the opening of Great Escape Lodge they mention the possibility of opening the waterpark to locals if attendance should drop off at the hotel.

[Nitro1118]

I never said it woudn't do well...in the summer. In winter, it would be stupid to keep it open.

VERY few people would waste the 100+ dollars a night just to go to a small waterpark and decent hotel with no amusment park instead of waiting a few months for the huge waterpark and amazing amsuement park. And yet again, if parks weren't so sure that they wouldn't make much money in winter, they wouldn't have the parks closed! If they thought they'd make a ton from adding hotels in the winter, more would do it!

Yes, adding one if the hotel doesn't do well. All I have said from the first place is see if a normal hotel would survive.

[GAcoaster]

Castaway Bay doesn't seem to have a problem.   All their rooms are priced between $89 and $332 per night right now in February: Click to see

Great Wolf Lodge in Sandusky doesn't have a problem.   All their rooms are priced between $299 and $389 this week: Click to see

There is a larger population here than in the middle of Ohio, and there's even more to do and see here than in Sandusky in Winter. :lol:

[Nitro1118]

OUCH, 299-389? That is really overpriced...

Anyway, again, just because they are open in winter doesn't mean they do great. SF adds a ton of coasters to the overpriced amusement parks it has, and up until 2 years ago kept adding new parks, yet SF isn't doing well. As I keep saying, GADV is a different situation than CP. At least near CP, they have Lake Erie and the islands to tour on, and they don't have places like the Pocono's an hour away like GADV does to take away any possibe winter attendance. GADV has nothing to do in the winter, and I just don't see many people coming to the indoor waterpark in the winter when they can go to the huge waterpark, and amusement park, a few months later. Or, they can do so much more and ge tthe indoor waterpark in Pocono's and I am sure northern NJ has things along those lines.

[GADVwow]

It is NOT overpriced when every room is booked...

I have many friends with kids and teenagers.  Several times so far this winter, they have tried to book weeknight rooms at the Great Wolf Lodge in Sandusky.  No can do, they were told.  Sold out!

Perhaps this is why the same company is expanding rapidly, including building a huge indoor waterpark/hotel at Paramount's Kings Island in Mason, Ohio.

Something is worth what people will pay for it, no more, no less.

I guess we will soon find out if enough people think Six Flags parking for a day is worth fifteen dollars...

[Nitro1118]

Yes, great wolfs have become much more popular. If this was an indoor waterpark outside of GADV, like a few miles away like PKI's will be, then I wouldn't have a problem. But as for the onsite one, they should just keep it simple and see if a hotel will work in season.

I would personally never go to Castaway Bay or Great Wolf in the offseason. No reason to. There are much better places in the winter to go, and looking at the closed park would torture me. The actual waterparks also aren't very big and nothign that i would run 45 miles to.

[GADVwow]

PKI's Great Wolf is NOT a few miles away...In fact, it is being built on Paramount Park property.  It is in the former campground, and well within walking distance of the park.

And the people I know who were going to take their kids to Great Wolf in Sandusky?  Five hour drive...EACH way.

[Nitro1118]

Does PKI not have a waterpark? If not, then Great Wolf is a great decision. PKI's Great Wolf is not like how GADV's hotel will be, in the sense of making PKI a resort.

EDIT

We will not be accusing anyone of lying on these boards.  Arguments will remain civil or the thread will be closed.  You may say that you think someone is wrong, but be prepared to back up those thoughts with facts.

-Cyclonic

[GADVwow]

I am not lying about anything.  Paramount's Kings Island has a large waterpark, it's called Boomerang Bay (it used to be called Water Works, and it is included in park admission, unlike Soak City at Cedar Point).  Across the street is another large waterpark, operated and managed by mostly former Kings Island employees and managers, called the Beach.  It does very well indeed, competing with Kings Island and even offering its own Christmas festival.  

The truth of my "the place was filled" comments is demonstrated by the rates that Great Wolf charges.  They are very bright people, and charge those rates that will result in them making the most money.

As they are charging the high rates that they do, it is obvious that they are usually full.  An empty room is profit lost.  NO hotel or motel wants that.

I do not appreciate your violating the terms of service here and accusing me of lying.  If you knew who I was, you would be VERY embarassed to say the least.  I believe, since you made this public allegation, you owe me a just as public apology.

The mistake you make is that since YOU wouldn't travel ten hours total to go to a waterpark, you think no one else would either.  Not true.

May I remind you that others think that people like those who post on this board, who go halfway or all the way across the country or world to ride a roller coaster are also nuts!

[Nitro1118]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if PKI had a BOomerang Bay or not like PGA has.

Just because GW has high rates doens't mean they are constantly filled, especially in winter time.

There is no place in the ToS that says you can't accuse someone of lying. I didn't attack you, call you names, or anything, but I still believe you are lying about the palce being sold out and your friends driving 5 hours just for the waterpark. And I am also very skeptical of these friends, as you said before they drive 8 hours for GADV and won't drive 2 hours for CP, or something very similar to that.

I don't known anyone, kid, adult, teengaer, you name it, who would travel 10 hours for a waterpark not even half the size of the one we have less than an hour and a half away. Period.

[CoasterPete]

Thanks for the video GA.  My friends and I, all being around the age of 20 visited Great Wolf Lodge in the Poconos this January not for the skiing or any of the winter activities that the Pocono Mountains provide, we stayed at the Great Wolfe Lodge just for the waterpark and to get away.  All of us are students and just needed a mid-winter break and I tell ya, this was the best place we could've possibly chosen.  We're already planing next years trip JUST to visit the resort and waterpark.  Keep in mind, the three days we were there, we didn't leave the hotel once.  And we felt that still wasn't enough fun for us.  Next year, we may go for 4 nights.  It really is a great value, for around $400 a night you get such amazing, first class service and an amazing waterpark.  My point is that this resort was such a blast, not just for the families that we saw having so much fun, but also for a bunch of college students just looking to get away.  Our waitress at dinner mentioned that a lot of their guests come from Long Island, where we came from.  So people will drive to visit these places in the winter.  Yes I know the Poconos have winter activities but thats not what drew us there, it was the chance to visit a resort with an indoor waterpark in the dead of winter.  Now, we went midweek and the hotel wasn't sold out but all the employees were telling us that on the weekends, the place is booked solid.  After hearing about the Great Escape Lodge a few weeks ago, my friends are thinking about checking that out next year instead and that's about 6 hours away.  So many people will drive to a place that provides such amazing family fun.  If Six Flags builds an indoor waterpark at Great Adventure, you can bet that my friends and I will be there every winter and in ten years when we have families, you can bet we'll be bring them there.  The price is totally worth the value of what you get.  My friend is actually taking his family to the Great Wolf Lodge next week in the Poconos and he has three kids and I know he is gonna have a blast.  He isn't going because of me, he is going because he heard about it, checked it out and wanted to take his family somewhere in the middle of the winter where they can have fun.  He doesn't want to go skiing or anything, just going for the indoor waterpark.  

I just wanted to add my two cents in.  I think the indoor waterpark is a great idea and I think it will do better than you might think.  Knowing how excited I was about going and knowing how excited I am to go back next year already, an indoor waterpark would be a hit year round.

Pete

[GADVwow]

The fact is Great Wolf appeals to families (just as Shapiro and company intend to with Six Flags).  They are not after the coaster enthusiast market.  

It doesn't surprise me at all that you don't know anyone who travels that far to a waterpark.  It's a totally different demographic.

[Cyclonic]

OK, this one is just going in circles guys.  Time to shut it down.